Jun08
03
Poll: Ramon Thomas Vs. The White Boy’s Club
Without going into too much detail, do you support Ramon Thomas’ assertion that the article written by Mandy de Waal about the who’s who of Web 2.0 in South Africa was ‘distasteful and offensive‘ or do you think Nic was right in saying that Ramon’s response “immediately marginalises his audience and those involved in his article”?
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Is the South African Web 2.0 community racially skewed?
Have your say…
You must be kidding me. So a poll in which the sample is heavily skewed will “decide” on this question and there’ll be more breast beating… This is the most pressing question of the day? Please do something useful.
Ramon Thomas (I’ve heard him speak) is a shameless (and in my view totally obsessive), self-proclaimed ‘networker’. As if his self-validation somehow vests in how many other people he’s virtually connected to. What interests me is that he bitches about the status quo i.t.o. Black Bloggers but doesn’t offer a SINGLE creative solution or idea for changing that scenario.
Maybe if he spent less time on Facebook or MyGenius he could apply his mind to it? This inertia is typical of way too many black people, or as in Ramon’s case, ‘people of colour’. They’ll still be whinging about the knock-on effect of apartheid at the friggin’ Pearly Gates. I hope God asks, “And what did you do personally, to change that?” There’s a reputational risk to this sort of colour-based and biased ‘victim mentality’. Ramon should consider that before next flying across his keyboard in high dudgeon.
What if Ramon Thomas is self-serving? The issues he raises are valid. Of course, that’s an opportunity for Clive Simpkins to get all reactionary and blaming the victim. Did Bill O Reilly or David Bullard dictate his comment?
Hahahah - Bongo Muffin, still hiding behind smoke and mirrors are we?
Love that, transparency not part of your opinion is it?
I have been following this discussion around for four days. The truth is, let us leave the race card to our “honorable” politicians.
I happen to be “black”, I am actually brownish but thats not the point. The truth is a lot of people in my circle are only happy to complete their IT/IS/Comp SCi studies, run along to big corporates and thats it.
The spirit of entrepreneurship is just not there, I do my designs,coding and animation because I have alway been a fan of innovation.
When I was a kid, I had my own “chop-shop”. Would make my own rip apart stereo and anything with an electric motor and the create my own stuff. That energy and creativity is still here, I have just channeled it into a different form..
So, I dig SA sites and any related web stuff. Race has never been an issue, if its awesome, I will check out..End of story
My initial response was to agree with Ramon. Not because I think the Web 2.0 industry in SA is racially skewed, but because I thought the ITWeb article could have been better researched.
Like I said in my comment on Ramon’s site - there is no racism at play, rather just ignorance in the media.
Anyway, I think the most effective way forward would be to acknowledge that more communication needs to take place in the local industry and the media need to look further than their noses when reporting on it. And that includes me.
Time to move on…
Khathutshelo raised an interesting point. Perhaps affirmative action is forcing talented white people out of the corporate field, and in to the “self-starting” industry of the web? A higher proportion of equally talented black people prefer to climb the corporate ladder?
I think the whole “Ramon VS The Whities” way of framing this issue is deceptive.
The real issues IMO are:
- is there really a lack of transformation (I believe that there is) within out industry?
- If we agree there is, should we be doing anything about it?
- if we say that we should, what can we do and how do we do so without marginalising anyone?
Simon makes an excellent point: “I think the most effective way forward would be to acknowledge that more communication needs to take place in the local industry”
Andrew Smith/Khathutshelo - bring in an interesting angle to the debate as well. And that’s exactly what we need. Open debate with contrasting viewpoints.
While I see it as a non-issue, I have to say it doesn’t help “whites” to get defensive about it. Say sorry. Then carry on with your business. We don’t have a foot to stand on.
I think an even more pressing issue is the cool Poll function you have there Mike.
Come on, empower a coloured - what tool are you using?
Sheesh had no idea this would cause as much heated debate as it did - was really a fun question and nothing more…
@ Mike, I would have thought you’d see it’s alot more serious than a fun question
I think people are hiding behind this issue by attacking insignificant aspects of the articles which were written and not being open and honest enough to admit that something is not 100% in the industry.
I agree with Darren’s comment 100%
I also think, if you don’t like Ramon, that does not make this whole debate a non-issue. I am very dissapointed that the defensive position is so immaturely being taken by the majority of white people. I thought there’s be some more mature thinkers out there seeing everyone one is supposedly such an expert on communication.
On the other side of it I do believe there are many examples of integration, but it still pales in comparison the the overall representation.
Lets hope this whole debate does not change the way we interact with each other and start looking at each other’s skin colour with more disdain. This is less about there being 2 camps and more about the web industry not keeping up with the greater integration taking place in the rest of society.
wow, heated debate. I think Mandy has launched a can of worms. So kudo’s for her for pointing it out but we need to move part that. As i said in my post i seriously think debating this issue actually does nothing. we can debate till we are blue in the face. The fact is it exists(The reasons it exists is not important) what is more important is we need to realise THis: Mandy said in her latest post
“Business is a matter of supply and demand. New media skills are in short supply and great demand. Right now the white boys hold the lion’s share of the supply. The way I see it, they have little interest or incentive to let go and empower others to share in the wealth, skills or technology in the new media industry.”
http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/specialfocus/dewaal080606.asp?O=FPH
However, i think i sufficiently argued enough on my blog that it makes much more economic sense for EVERYONE involved. The specifics of this is a long analysis to explain, but lets make it short and to the point as i can, the fact that more people are included makes the MARKET size bigger, the fact that more people are aware of it, INCREASES the reach of social media, this has a knock on effect where MORE people are using social media/new media and therefore companies that invest in this get a higher ROI and yes, consultants out there can charge more. If you are not following my argument, please comment back. Maybe this warrants a further blog post. But that being said, if for nothing else by virtue of more people being involved, ANYONE INVOLVED In the industry is better off (NOT WORSE, contrary to popular belief)
Hey Clive I am glad to see you have so much free time that are following my activities on Facebook and MyGenius. It was good to meet you in person at the NSASA event in March because you are a legend.
Anyway I never aimed to offer any solutions because I wanted to present a list of people that you or me could work with, like Mandy did in her article. Those people are each doing their own thing, in their own respective ways, to grow and develop.
Hi Ramon! Correction: actually not following your activities anyplace.
Just commenting on what you told us about your frenetic networking via those and other media.
My overwhelming impression on the topic is that the said social media and its acolytes succeed in glorifying style over substance - and elevating superficiality to an art-form. Which I consider to be a scary trend. It’s almost the cyber equivalent of the neurologically disengaged British tea-party circuit of old.
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